otw_news | Anti-fanfic Bingo, redux

Anti-fanfic Bingo, redux

All right! Our first round of Anti-Fanfic Bingo went beautifully, and we have plans for your responses, but let's move on to the second row of the card:

How would you respond to these accusations? Just like last time, please tell ComRel!

Graphic by the wonderful Ciderpress.

Ithiliana's post that started it all is here.

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femmequixotic,

bethbethbeth,

ciderpress,

mirabile_dictu,

shrift,

svmadelyn
Community Relations Committee

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I think, to add to this in a bit of a side tangent, in fandom, sometimes having higher ratings can help bring in more readers too. Something I've noticed in my fandom, is that slash, by far, has the largest readership, and some gen authors will try to cash in on that by labeling normal friendship fic as pre-slash to try and entice them to read it (at least that's my guess). And while the over all rating still can be low, I think slash as a whole implies a bit higher rating than gen, since it throws sexuality into the mix (not that there can't be R rated gen and PG rated slash).

This is true in my experience as well. I write gen primarily, and I admit that I've been tempted to make my works sound, shall we say, racier than they are because I've found that a good number of slash readers dismiss gen and friendship stories out of hand. There have been some great discussions at

metafandom about this phenomenon. I've never succumbed, but I've seen others do it and they tend to see a bump in readers and feedback. This ties fairly neatly back into the premise that we rate on the side of caution. We have few, if any, incentives to rate lower, but several to rate higher. Modifiers or warnings like slash and gen and BDSM and fluffy help inform the reader about how far the rating has been pushed towards the next bracket.

I've found that a good number of slash readers dismiss gen and friendship stories out of hand.
*cough*me*hack*
I don't know why, it's not that I'm addicted to the porn aspect of the fics, but.... I guess it comes down to the fact that I'm a romantic at heart (who grew up reading trashy romance novels) and am there to read about the courtship. *shrugs*

There have been some great discussions at metafandom about this phenomenon. I've never succumbed, but I've seen others do it and they tend to see a bump in readers and feedback.
I think part of it comes down to acknowledgement. I've seen gen writers/readers, proclaim loudly (and generally obnoxiously) that "OMG they're just *friends* and you're sick to think otherwise!!" (May I also point out, just to be fair, that I've seen more than my fair share of obnoxious and loud slashers who proclaim that "Of course they're *together* in canon and just hiding it!" *rolls eyes*)
I've seen a couple posts on my flist about people misinterpreting fics and the character's relationship in them, readers getting flack from the author, because they see the relationship differently (once from someone who writes both slash and gen, who was annoyed that her readers read a gen story as pre-slash). Preslash gives us an opening though, so we feel safe in our reactions, and don't have to worry about the author getting pissed because we constantly wear our slash goggles. Which is why I think an author's note saying something like "This *could* be seen as preslash. If you squint" goes a long way. It makes slashers feel like we're welcome.
Anyways, kind of off topic here.

We have few, if any, incentives to rate lower, but several to rate higher. Modifiers or warnings like slash and gen and BDSM and fluffy help inform the reader
I know quite a few people who use the features of many archives that allow you to search by warning. For some a warning like "non-con", "mpreg" or "BDSM" is a squick warning, to others it's a flag of a genre they like to read.

I don't know why, it's not that I'm addicted to the porn aspect of the fics, but.... I guess it comes down to the fact that I'm a romantic at heart (who grew up reading trashy romance novels) and am there to read about the courtship. *shrugs*

It comes back to everyone being in fandom for different reasons. You’re here for the courtship aspect. I tend to go more for characters studies and stories that expand on ideas that are raised and then neglected by the source media. I also like subversive stories, and while slash, in many canonical sources, is fundamentally subversive, the prevalence of slash in fan works has made it feel less so.

I think part of it comes down to acknowledgement. I've seen gen writers/readers, proclaim loudly (and generally obnoxiously) that "OMG they're just *friends* and you're sick to think otherwise!!" (May I also point out, just to be fair, that I've seen more than my fair share of obnoxious and loud slashers who proclaim that "Of course they're *together* in canon and just hiding it!" *rolls eyes*)

I can’t stand either side of the argument, and like you I’ve seen both. Mind you, the ones who really get my goat are the ones who decry het because, you know, women are icky and coming between the true love of boy x and boy y, or are all Mary Sues.

I've seen a couple posts on my flist about people misinterpreting fics and the character's relationship in them, readers getting flack from the author, because they see the relationship differently (once from someone who writes both slash and gen, who was annoyed that her readers read a gen story as pre-slash). Preslash gives us an opening though, so we feel safe in our reactions, and don't have to worry about the author getting pissed because we constantly wear our slash goggles. Which is why I think an author's note saying something like "This *could* be seen as preslash. If you squint" goes a long way. It makes slashers feel like we're welcome.

My problem is, though, that so much of fandom is devoted to romance, and to slash in particular, that I don’t feel like I should have to roll out the welcome wagon to make it safe by effectively lying about my motives behind writing a piece. It's insulting, both to me and to you. Besides, who’s out there making the world safe and welcoming for genfic authors and readers? There are whole archives out there that don’t even have a gen category.

As someone who writes gen, I admit that I was initially quite taken aback when I got feedback that referred to a romance in a short that, as far as I was concerned, was pure comedy. I went back and I looked and looked and looked again at the piece to see where I’d put the romance in, but ultimately could see none. In the end I decided that the reviewer had their romance goggles on so tightly that it coloured everything they saw. It’s funny, but that one comment, probably written by a teenager, sticks in my mind more than any other bit of feedback I've received. It's a bit distressing to try to do something different, only to know and see that so many people have one expectation that's so deeply ingrained that they're going look for romance even when you strongly hint that it's not there. You have to ask yourself: what's the point?

Anyways, kind of off topic here.

Off topic, on topic... *shrugs* Off topic happens because it's interesting.

Mind you, the ones who really get my goat are the ones who decry het because, you know, women are icky and coming between the true love of boy x and boy y, or are all Mary Sues.
I'll admit, that I don't read het all that often. Probably because, since I'm not in the het parts of fandom, I don't have the know-how of how to find the good stuff, so end up just reading whatever I can come across, which can lead to some really bad stuff.
I think that may be why some slash writers say that. Because if you just go to the local fandom archive and start looking up het, (or slash, or gen) then you're not necessarily getting the "good" ones. Also, I've got to admit, 90% of the time an original character is introduced as a love interest (regardless of whether or not it's het or slash) it comes off as a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.

As someone who writes gen, I admit that I was initially quite taken aback when I got feedback that referred to a romance in a short that, as far as I was concerned, was pure comedy. I went back and I looked and looked and looked again at the piece to see where I’d put the romance in, but ultimately could see none. In the end I decided that the reviewer had their romance goggles on so tightly that it coloured everything they saw.
One of the posts I read about people talking about this is that most slashers, when they watch the show, they see the characters as slashy. In Stargate Atlantis (my fandom) John and Rodney (my pairing) spend a lot of time snarking, and teasing each other. They'll give each other playful slaps, and toss disses at each other all the time. That's canon. But those are things that most slashers in my fandom/pairing find slashy. But they're canon, so if someone where to write a fic, where John and Rodney are out walking 5 miles on a mission where they're teasing and laughing at each other, *they* would probably call it gen. They boys aren't making sexual jokes, or talking about their hot and heavy night in bed last night, but they are showing an intimacy in their interactions that so many of us find slashy. So while you the gen writer don't see any romance between them, if you're writing them in character, a slasher is going to find it slashy, just as they'd find the show slashy.

My problem is, though, that so much of fandom is devoted to romance, and to slash in particular, that I don’t feel like I should have to roll out the welcome wagon to make it safe by effectively lying about my motives behind writing a piece. It's insulting, both to me and to you.
And, of course, I would never say you had to. Just that I don't think it's an insult to do so. Like I said, if you're writing something in character to how we see them on the show, a slasher is going to find it slashy. And I don't necessarily see it as lying about your motives, just saying that you're not going to be angry if someone doesn't see things the way you do (I wrote this as gen, but some might see it as pre-slash). If that bothers you, then you definitely shouldn't say that it's preslash.

Besides, who’s out there making the world safe and welcoming for genfic authors and readers? There are whole archives out there that don’t even have a gen category.
Umm, actually, in my current fandom (my only other big fandom was Queer as Folk where there wasn't really a gen aspect to the show, so...), there are more archives out there (that I know of at least) for gen then there are for Ship (both het and slash). And sure I know of quite a few places that are about slash, but I've come across just as many places that are gen only, and I'm not even into gen...
And I'm sure this is mostly because I'm a slasher so notice things differently, but I've come across more places that say they're open to everyone, but have been hostile to slashers that I have the opposite.

I don't know why, it's not that I'm addicted to the porn aspect of the fics, but.... I guess it comes down to the fact that I'm a romantic at heart (who grew up reading trashy romance novels) and am there to read about the courtship.

I'm with you. I figure, at least if the story sucks there'll be porn at the end, and an NC-17 rating lets you know that the characters do get together (though they may not stay that way). Whereas gen I'm much less likely to know what I'm getting into when I start--the story could go anywhere. I'll read gen if it's recced, but stick to NC-17 otherwise, pretty much.

I think with me, it's more that I like my subtleties blatant. :P
So while gen can be very intimate, and close, I would rather have it spelled out for me, because I can be rather oblivious if left to my own devices. If it a fic is NC-17, well, we *know* it's going to be spelled out at *some* point :P

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Anti-fanfic Bingo, redux

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