ext_27009 (![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
libgirl.livejournal.com) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
otw_news2007-05-31 11:17 pm
libgirl.livejournal.com) wrote in otw_news2007-05-31 11:17 pm
Entry tags:
A Question....
Has there been any consideration about age restrictions at the suggested archive?
As a long-time, multi-fandom participant and talking with another one this week over the issue at LJ and with fanlib, two things came up:
1. As long as we're paying someone else to host our things, they can decide not to host specific things. Also, people will attempt to make a profit off of us in any way possible. The best solution is to host our own site with a dedicated server than can house us all.
2. We were talking and we both agreed that if there was a multi-fandom fanfiction hub, we wouldn't want it to be along the lines of ff.net. Everyone I know cringes when a news source goes to ff.net to talk about the "fandom phenomenon". That said, admitting fic.'s based on quality is tricky and subjective. If we create something, for ourselves, then I hope that we would both cover ourselves legally and present ourselves professionally. There is a legal issue involving minors and NC-17 material than can only really be remedied by not allowing minors. The easiest solution seems to be creating a panfandom archive for underage readers either in association with or as part of the larger archive, requiring a age statement to sign up and logged-in-only access to adult material. Also, if there are no underage readers allowed, then there is less likelihood of creating another ff.net.
I know that this will probably not be a popular opinion. I know that many people in fandom, particularly on LJ are underage and "passing" or "socking" in order to read adult material. I'm not saying that some underage readers cannot handle adult material or aren't already participating in adult activities; however, from a legal standpoint, it seems more responsible to take precautions.
Additionally, in light of the recent LJ events, it's obvious that much of what gets archives, websites, journals and fic.'s shut down is a perceived danger to the "childrenz". If this is a site by adults, for adults it's less likely to come under that sort of negative fire. After all, we're going to have to deal with the legal ramifications of intellectual property and copyright laws already.
I'm truly not trying to rock the boat or ignore the many and important contributions of underage fans to fandom. I'm just trying to ascertain how the issues of liability will be dealt with.
As a long-time, multi-fandom participant and talking with another one this week over the issue at LJ and with fanlib, two things came up:
1. As long as we're paying someone else to host our things, they can decide not to host specific things. Also, people will attempt to make a profit off of us in any way possible. The best solution is to host our own site with a dedicated server than can house us all.
2. We were talking and we both agreed that if there was a multi-fandom fanfiction hub, we wouldn't want it to be along the lines of ff.net. Everyone I know cringes when a news source goes to ff.net to talk about the "fandom phenomenon". That said, admitting fic.'s based on quality is tricky and subjective. If we create something, for ourselves, then I hope that we would both cover ourselves legally and present ourselves professionally. There is a legal issue involving minors and NC-17 material than can only really be remedied by not allowing minors. The easiest solution seems to be creating a panfandom archive for underage readers either in association with or as part of the larger archive, requiring a age statement to sign up and logged-in-only access to adult material. Also, if there are no underage readers allowed, then there is less likelihood of creating another ff.net.
I know that this will probably not be a popular opinion. I know that many people in fandom, particularly on LJ are underage and "passing" or "socking" in order to read adult material. I'm not saying that some underage readers cannot handle adult material or aren't already participating in adult activities; however, from a legal standpoint, it seems more responsible to take precautions.
Additionally, in light of the recent LJ events, it's obvious that much of what gets archives, websites, journals and fic.'s shut down is a perceived danger to the "childrenz". If this is a site by adults, for adults it's less likely to come under that sort of negative fire. After all, we're going to have to deal with the legal ramifications of intellectual property and copyright laws already.
I'm truly not trying to rock the boat or ignore the many and important contributions of underage fans to fandom. I'm just trying to ascertain how the issues of liability will be dealt with.
Re: Quality control & Locking adult content
What I really like is the idea of having two sections - one where you can post your general fanfiction (maybe make Spellcheck possible and if someone reports a badly spelled fic we let the author spellcheck/find a beta and repost it?), but also a place where there's actual proper fic.
Inspired by
You see, every area of Arc's fanfiction archive, 'Penn'd Passion,' has its own board of six volunteers--three canon editors, and three straight-up grammar-and-spelling editors of the editor type, for a total, as I've said, of six. In point of fact, most standing armies are a bit lax from an organizational standpoint compared to this archive. Most armies are probably a sight easier to get into, too.
Before a fic can be uploaded to the archive it gets fine-toothed by one canon editor and then by one rigid grammarian with an aptitude for spelling, and, as you can imagine, the vast majority of submitted fanfiction gets shot back to its author before she's even finished her Celebratory Dance of Accomplishment. If they send you a list of corrections and suggestions twice the length of the fic you submitted, it's a sign they like you and wish you to resubmit. If they send you a tersely worded, 'We do not think your fanfiction is suitable for Penn'd Passion,' then you might as well get on with flinging yourself out a high window if having the thing hosted at PP was one of your particular goals in life.
Also, perhaps different ways of rating things? We can let the readers of a fic rate it and every month or so we read the highest rated fics and consider them for the second area.
It's not about being elitist; it's that proper fic deserves proper respect, and people who work hard to write something good get the recognition they deserve, rather than to be on the same list as the people who've been fan for exactly ten minutes and thought (deluded and with no idea what the difference between you're, your, youre, ' and ` is) they could just as well write a "ff" of their own because they're so much more brilliant than all the others, look, my little clique agrees with me!, etc.
I'm not saying it won't be difficult, I'm saying that it is, in fact, possible. You're asking for dedication; we're fandom. We're dedicated, alright.
Re: Quality control & Locking adult content
Re: Quality control & Locking adult content
I didn't mean to exlude the "not-beta'd enough fic" - I'm talking about good fic, in the way of, um, Elizabeth Barr's There Is No Such Place versus a plotless fanfic where Harry's a vampire and Voldemort his father. The way we differentiate good books from bad books, if that's how you want to describe it. A "bad" novel usually doesn't get published, because it lacks a good storyline, or realistic characters, or consistent characterisations/plots/writing.
The way I'm picturing it, it'd be like this: the readers rate the fics on the archive, and the fics that got the highest ratings in a particular amount of time will be put in another section, but in the proces of putting it in that section a team of boardmembers will beta/nitpick it again, and if needed check the canon (McG is 27, not 26 years old in 1994, for example - the little details). Also, because not all good fics get "popular", maybe there'd be a way of recommending fics to others/that board?
It still needs to be worked out, of course.
Re: Quality control & Locking adult content
Sorry, but I find that narrow-minded and exclusionist. Just because a fic might not be up to your standards, doesn't mean that whoever wrote it didn't work hard on it. There are many reasons for failings in grammar in fan-fiction...
...continues in next comment *curses LJ*
Re: Quality control & Locking adult content
And on the issue of 'canon' editors, excuse my language but, what utter bullshit. That totally defies the whole reason for fanfic in the first place. While there is a slot in fandom writing for those who wish to stick to canon rigidly, most people write to expand on canon, or to trash canon entirely with their own ideas.
I totally resent the idea that this members of this archive should be the Fanfic Gestapo. The very idea of people deciding whether my fic is worthy or not makes my eyes bleed to read, more so than bad fan-fiction.
Re: Quality control & Locking adult content
In which case it could be a AU fic. I'm talking about names, or dates - like saying in HP fandom that McG is 56 instead of 70-something. Or people who can't have been in the same class because one's eight years older than the other. Or oh, Regulus wasn't Sirius's long lost son, it was his brother, and they're not twins - Regulus is one or two years younger. The kind of thing that they created HP_Lexicon for.
...And good spelling and grammar a good fanfic maketh not. While it helps from a reading standpoint, there are some downright awful fics with perfect grammar too.
I probably didn't make myself very clear - I didn't mean that bad grammar = bad fanfic or vice versa, I meant, if you've a great fanfic, and the people who rate it all agree that it's a great fanfic, the least we (as in, people in a particular committee) could do is beta and nitpick it for them. Exclusionism makes my eyes bleed, but so does bad grammar, and so does bad fanfic.
I don't think it's narrow-minded. Everyone's allowed to post, aren't they? And people are going to find a way to rate things, because we're all sick of Fanfiction.net where good fics are so bloody hard to find - why not get the stories people consider extra good and amazing and outstanding a chance to really stand out? Why should Cassie Claire's Draconian Trilogy get all the attention while Elizabeth Barr's There Is No Such Place is just as good or even better? Not every good story becomes famous and not every good fanfiction writer becomes a BNF. Writing requires practice. I do think people should learn that even if they've talent in something, it doesn't mean that they're above trying to improve.
Um. I'm not sure if that came out the way I meant/wanted it.
Re: Quality control & Locking adult content
Thank you. I feel the same. Readers are entitled to their own tastes, but to say they should be able to enshrine those tastes in a large public archive designed for everyone in fandom.... Gah! No. If this ruling goes into effect, I'm so out of here.
I work very hard at my writing. I have a large private library, and belong to several public libraries, including one of the largest university libraries in the world, and I spend a lot of time doing research for my stories. I'm trying to develop my own writing style. If someone doesn't like that style, they may conclude that I'm a bad writer. I write AUs. If someone doesn't like AUs, they may conclude that I'm a bad writer. That's two strikes against me, right there. What else? Oh, yes. I have some controversial opinions about fan fiction and fandom. If someone knows about them, and doesn't like me because I don't see things their way, they might conclude that I'm a bad writer. Three strikes, you're out!
Another thing. Popular doesn't equal good, or vice versa. A writer may be popular. Her stories may be great, or they could simply fit in with popular taste. Someone else's stories might be excellent, but different. Readers may be put off by that, because it isn't what they're used to.