ciderpress (![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
ciderpress.livejournal.com) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
otw_news2008-01-14 10:50 pm
ciderpress.livejournal.com) wrote in otw_news2008-01-14 10:50 pm
Anti-Fanfic Bingo Poll Row 1
We're drawing the Anti-Fanfic Bingo reponse challenge to a close after three weeks of lively discussion and intelligent and often downright hilarious responses ("Ah, fuck you!").
There were 310+ comments in total for 25 bingo squares. Thank you all very much for participating!
Throughout this week, we'll be asking you to vote for your favourite responses to each square, one row at a time. Please check your favourite responses; we'll be collecting the results and announcing the favourites at the end of the week. I've been assured that there are plans to do something very sparkly with the bingo card and the winners.
We'd like to thank![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ithiliana, half_elf_lost, kitsune13 and cofax7 for creating the card and giving us permission to use it.
ETA: Please follow the links in the poll on a new tab or window. If you follow them in the same tab/window before you finish voting, your votes get lost in the wilds of the internet. :)
Also, if you don't have an LJ, please leave your vote in the comments. We'll definitely put them in the finally tally.
[Poll #1121294]
--femmequixotic, bethbethbeth, ciderpress, mirabile_dictu, shrift, svmadelyn.
Community Relations Committee
There were 310+ comments in total for 25 bingo squares. Thank you all very much for participating!
Throughout this week, we'll be asking you to vote for your favourite responses to each square, one row at a time. Please check your favourite responses; we'll be collecting the results and announcing the favourites at the end of the week. I've been assured that there are plans to do something very sparkly with the bingo card and the winners.
We'd like to thank
ithiliana, half_elf_lost, kitsune13 and cofax7 for creating the card and giving us permission to use it. ETA: Please follow the links in the poll on a new tab or window. If you follow them in the same tab/window before you finish voting, your votes get lost in the wilds of the internet. :)
Also, if you don't have an LJ, please leave your vote in the comments. We'll definitely put them in the finally tally.
[Poll #1121294]
--
femmequixotic, bethbethbeth, ciderpress, mirabile_dictu, shrift, svmadelyn.Community Relations Committee
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This is so, so awesome!
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I know this is in fun, but I'm actually moderately worried about the answers about whether money is involved being in the copyright infringement poll question.
My disclaimer: IANAL, but I've had to sit through a number of dreadfully boring conversations on copyright law as it applies to libraries and higher ed, and am reasonably familiar with at least what the words on the page say. But I could be wrong about what they mean, and if someone cleverer than I has a citation that says I am, okay.
It's not that I don't agree that fanfic's legal status insofar as whether it violates (US) copyright law is undeclared (because I do), but money being made by the potential infringer is technically not even mentioned in the code, as far as I know. That is, in consideration of Fair Use (which is only one part of the copyright law, and one that there is no clear decision, either, as to whether it is the umbrella under which fanfic stands), real or potential financial impact on the originating author/copyright holder is one of the factors, and type of use being made (e.g., educational or commercial) is another, but there is really nothing that says "as long as you aren't making money, it's not copyright infringement" (a commercial use can be made without money being made). Financial impact and type of use are two of four factors, and how those weigh is not stated (and varies by case), so while realistically it may be true that a publisher or copyright owner is more likely to sue in the case that the infringer is making money, that she isn't doesn't prevent anything; the very first part of the US copyright code specifically says that the copyright holder literally has the exclusive right to make copies, other than specific exemptions (none of which are fanfic), without any discussion regarding whether those copies are for sale. It also says the copyright holder has the exclusive right to derivative works, again, without comment on financial gain, or on how financial gain or loss (or for that matter, derivativeness) might be measured.
For another example, as far as money and type of use: it's probably illegal to make a photocopy of several articles from the same issue of a journal that an individual can't reasonably get another copy of, in order to make them available for a class to read, even if the instructor would not use these materials if the publisher asked for money. It probably is, under US law, perfectly legal for an instructor to tell everyone in the class to go to the library and read those same articles in the legally-acquired library copy of the journal. Making the copies, despite that the use is clearly educational, and the financial impact is zero because the instructor wouldn't pay either way is still probably illegal.
Anyway. I do think there are lots of interesting discussions to be had regarding fanfic and how and where copyright law is relevant to it, but I think "doesn't make any money" isn't, as far as the actual (US) code, a useful argument, but a lot of fans THINK it is. I mean, how often do you see a disclaimer on a fic that says it's okay because no money is being made? I see that often, either exactly that explicitly or more generally "No money being made, don't sue" or similar. I have in fact been required to include such a statement to publish fanfic in certain contexts, even though it is meaningless.
So. My concern here is that young/new fanfic (or non-fanfic) authors (or old ones who already have this idea) are likely to come away from any discussion in which the money=copyright infringement argument is legitimized (such as by being included twice in six answers) with their convictions that "no profit = not an infringement" strengthened (or created in the first place), when honestly, this is not an all or nothing standard.
/wet blanket. I really don't mean to object to the bingo thing or to other reasons why fanfic is arguable not a copyright infringement, and I think "show me where it says so" or "there's not case law" or "it's fair use" or any number of other answers are fine, but that one, eh, not so much with the true. IMO.
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Neither of those is definitive--the Acuff case with Two Live Crew's "Pretty Woman" was (1) commercial and (2) potentially harmful to Orbison's future income--but found to be fair use anyway. (Parody. Part of me believes the best legal defense for fanfic starts with the presumption that all slashfic is parody.)
"No money involved" is about as meaningful as "I've only used small excerpts" or "this is a parody"--it's a statement about why one believes it's fair use; it's not an absolute answer.
However, I agree that far too many fans (and other people) think that "not making money" = "legal use of copyrighted material." It can be a substantial part of a claim of fair use, but it's not a simple "Are you making money/costing the copyright holder money?
Y[ ] N[ ]; if N is checked, you're okay!"
Doesn't work that way, and we do need to be more careful of mentioning that in our dialogues. (And not tangling it with the whacked author's moral rights discussions.)
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*goes bright red and hides*
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