Anti-Fanfic Bingo Poll Row 4

[svmadelyn.livejournal.com]

As ciderpress, bethbethbeth and femmequixotic have noted in the polls for Row One, Row Two and Row Three already this week, we're drawing the Anti-Fanfic Bingo response challenge to a close after three weeks of lively discussion and intelligent and often downright hilarious responses ("Ah, fuck you!").

Throughout this week, we'll be asking you to vote for your favorite responses to each square, one row at a time. Please check your favorite responses (as many as you like!); we'll be collecting the results and announcing the favorites at the end of the week.

Again, many thanks to ithiliana, half_elf_lost, kitsune13 and cofax7 for creating the card and giving us permission to use it.

If you don't have an LJ, please feel free to leave your responses in a comment below. We'll be including all responses in the final tally!



All original row four responses can be found here.

First, the full quotes, then please vote in the poll.

4.1 - You owe the writers respect for creating an ORIGINAL (TM) world!

1. This is my respect. - rm

2. I certainly respect the effort and talent they put into their artistic creation. But I don't always agree with people I respect, nor do I always follow their wishes. I respect my mother more than almost anyone in the world, but when she says she doesn't like the new guy I'm dating, I listen cordially and then make my own decision. She is not the boss of me. And neither are authors. - lottelita

3. This presupposes a) that we couldn't, haven't, and don't, create original worlds of our own (look at alternate universe fic some time), b) that the original world we're borrowing for our fanfic was perfect and complete the way it was, and couldn't be explored further, and most importantly, c) that fanfic can't be an act of respect. - vassilissa

4. I do respect them. Whether or not I respect the creator(s) has nothing to do with whether or not I create fan works based on a commercial product. - zellieh

5. So creators riffing off of Shakespeare, Homer, Murasaki, Andersen, and Child ballads are fair game? In the speclit community, at least, there's this little concept called "the genre conversation." This concept acknowledges that nothing is created in a vacuum, and most works of art are responses, often to other works of art. Fanfic can be viewed through that lens.

Alternatively, fanfic can be viewed as a critique/exploration of a source. I write book reviews. I have as much respect for the creator when I write fanfic as when I write a review, and sometimes more. - ranalore

6. And who says I'm not respecting them? If I didn't think their original world was awesome, I wouldn't want to play in it. - melfinatheblue

7. It's precisely *because* I admire their talent that I'm a fan. I respect their creativity by buying their stuff and spreading the word to my friends. Would anyone in their right minds write fic or draw art about characters they *didn't* think were totally awesome? Especially if they couldn't make a living from it? Get real! - snakeysnape

8. I do respect the writers. Have you ever heard of "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"? That's what fanfic is - the imitation meant as flattery. Fanfic writers aren't writing fanfic to insult the Original Author, they are writing because they love the Original Author's writing. If you can't see that, then I pity your fans. - mimi_sardinia

4.2 - You're acting like spoiled children!

1. We're not the one saying that nobody else can play with their toys. - were_lemer

2. How so? Pot meet kettle. You're the one acting like a spoiled child because YOU don't like something and you expect everyone else to like what you like, as though the world revolves around your tastes alone. That attitude is entirely self centered and is the earmark of an immature person. Adults know that everyone in the world is different and that everyone likes and dislikes different things and they have a right to do so without interference or harassment from anyone. - doingsoso

3. How so? I'm not the one throwing tantrums that people are responding to something I put out in public to be responded to. - ranalore

4. That would imply that I am whining, crying, and abusing those who refuse to give me something I want. I'm not whining, I'm not crying, and I'm not calling anyone nasty names. (Some people in fandom probably are, but that's what some people do, whether it's over fanfiction or their cell phone bill.) Also, the spoiled-children simile implies that I am asking for something I don't have a right to and don't deserve. Obviously, I don't see the creation of fanworks in that light. - lottelita

5. This is a bad faith argument. It allows the arguer to ignore what we're arguing and send us to our beds without supper, something they do not have the authority to do. - vassilissa

6. No. I like sharing my toys, and playing with others. - zellieh

7. No, I learned how to share in kindergarten. ataniell93

4.3 - Bad fan stories will make people not want to buy a writer's work!

1. All of Lee Goldberg's crappy tie-ins haven't stopped people from watching Monk. - were_lemur

2. But far more often, the good stories bring more people into the fandom than would get there otherwise. There are some things I wouldn't have ever considered reading or watching if not for fandom; Good Omens, which led me to the rest of Gaiman and Pratchett's work, is likely my best example. If one of my pre-LJ-era friends hadn't used Crowley fanart for her blog layout one spring, I wouldn't have discovered the book, and about 35-40 more books by the same authors, for quite some time (if at all). And I've bought about 20 of those books, and had another ten or so bought for me.
Yes, it's art and not fic, but tell me how the fanwork hurt the authors financially. - minkhollow

3. Bad reviews make people not want to buy a writer's work. Bad reviews are legal. And I have a very hard time imagining that someone would be surfing fanfiction.net, come across "The Day that Draco Malfoy Fell in Love with Princess Sparklesue," and decide that the Harry Potter series isn't worth reading. Come on now. - lottelita

4. You have no idea how many new shows and books series I've gone out and bought because of fandom, and at extortionate prices, too, just because I fell in love with the fic. - tahariel

5. Show me the numbers. I want facts and figures. That statement is a fallacy based on no evidence whatsoever. Many people either already have the author's work or go and buy it so they can read/watch the original. I myself never watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer until AFTER I started reading fan fic. Now tell me how my buying all 7 seasons on DVD, at one go, backs up your assertion? I also have Angel the series all 5 seasons. I bought those after reading fan fic also. I had NEVER watched them on television and I wanted to see these characters everyone was writing fic about. It increases sales, because the fans are the ones who buy the writer's work. Why would anyone buy show relatd things if they aren't a fan already? Fan Fiction is a part of that whether it's Het, Gen, or slash. Fan fiction, no matter the type, increases the interest in the original work. - doingsoso

6. Actually, I suspect that bad fan stories, like good fan stories, bring more consumers to the original source. People want to see what inspired something, good or bad. They want to know the source for themselves in order to determine if the fan story is good or bad, and why. Often, those who read fan stories end up writing fan stories, and that means they'll want their own copies of the source for reference. It's a happy little capitalist circle, in some respects. - ranalore

7. If this is true, then so is the reverse: good fan stories will make people want to buy more product(s). - zellieh

8. Bad fanfiction makes me stop reading that fan-writer; however, good fanfiction has kept me reading bad writers and paying for their books long past the time I would ordinarily have stopped because other people kept my love for their characters alive after they had ceased to be able to. - ataniell93

9. No, bad writing will do that. - vassilissa

4.4 - You're raping me!

1. This shows terrible disrespect for people who have been raped. - vassilissa

2. If you've been raped, and this really feels that terrible to you, I suggest you seek counseling -- you may be suffering from PTSD. If you haven't been raped, and you think that what you're feeling is in any way comparable to what a rape survivor feels, I suggest you issue a public apology immediately and donate a large sum of money to RAINN -- and get a frickin' clue.

Rape is horrifying because it robs the victim of control of his or her own body, a basic human right and the foundation of our sense of security and self. It also feeds off society's ideas about sex and purity, and makes later intimacy problematic for many survivors. This is not like fanfiction at all. I do not hurt you when I write fanfiction. I do not take anything away from you. I do not traumatize you. I do not make you question your worth as a human being. I do not make you afraid to get close to people you love. Fanfiction is not like rape.

(Do people really say this? I mean, come on.) - lottelita

3. Somehow, a hard copy of a piece of fanfiction (on paper) has somehow crawled onto your bed and took advantage of you. - anextropian

4. ...
......
........................
+++Divide By Cucumber Error+++Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot+++ - minkhollow

5. Wow. You have more issues than Anne Rice. Wait, are you Anne Rice? - rm

6. Wow. No, I'm not. I am not forcing you to have sex with me. I am writing fiction set in your universe. Please, have a sense of perspective. - melfinatheblue

4.5 - It's trademark infringement!

1. OMG, if Disney can't keep people from using their old cartoons indefinitely, it could be the end of the world as we know it (tm). - were_lemur

2. Trademarks apply to original characters used in toys and such, not written work. Sigh. Google it and get your terms straight. If your google finger is broken, then you should still be able to use your nose because it's long enough to poke in everyone else's business. You're not the fanfic police! You're not copyright or trademark police, Thank God, because you can't even get the terms stright. Get real and get a life already. No Fanfic writer I know makes money selling lunchboxes or action figures. - doingsoso

3. I'll take that seriously when I hear from a lawyer who took you seriously. In the mean time: Mahahahahahaa! - coffeecat77

4. What's your trademark? Overprivileged whiny educated person who's better off than 99.9% of the people on the planet? - perfica

5. *If* I did it to trademarked properties, it would still be fair use. Trademark is there to protect the owners from imitators using their name. We're not competing with the trademark owner, or trying to pass our work off as official and authorised, we're making something totally new. You might as well tell me not to make new recipes including Rice Krispies(tm). - vassilissa

6. Many legal experts are still arguing this one, so no-one can be sure if it is or isn't. Even if it is, trademark is decided on a case-by-case basis, just like copyright, so no-one can say for sure if a specific case is trademark infringement until it goes to court. - zellieh

7. I know little about trademark and copyright law, but I do know those laws exist to stop people from making money out of other people's property. I am making no money. - mimi_sardinia

[Poll #1123114]

-- femmequixotic, bethbethbeth, ciderpress, mirabile_dictu, shrift, svmadelyn.
Community Relations Committee